Last week conservative journalist Tucker Carlson posted an interview with country singer John Rich in which the two discussed Rich’s new song, Revelation. While I had heard about the interview and had seen a couple of brief clips on social media, I only watched the entire interview after some friends sent me the link and asked for my thoughts. Saturday night I saw the first half of the video on the side of the highway, after running out of gas on the way home from a wedding, and finished the rest the next morning while preparing breakfast. I jotted down a few quick responses for my friends, but in the interest of fairness and integrity, it would be helpful to give a more thorough answer.
A bit of background may be in order here. I am familiar with the country duo Big & Rich through a few of their more popular songs. Prior to seeing this interview, however, I do not think I had ever listened to either Big Kenny or John Rich speak about biblical, social, or political topics, so I really don’t have any preconceived framework through which to interpret his views. Similarly, I know of Tucker Carlson from various news stories and social media posts over the years. I have listened to one or two of his podcast episodes before, but that is about the extent of my exposure to him. I do not know anything about either man’s religious background or views beside what each stated in the interview.
Revelation…it’s the one that preachers don’t teach, that no one really wants to read, and I’m thinking I don’t,?it’s so great, I couldn’t wait to talk to you about it, but, I didn’t think that anyone would want to hear it.
Tucker Carlson
So what did Rich say, and what should we think about it? At the very beginning of the episode, Tucker says, “When you said you were going to write a song about Revelation, I was like, well, um, ?legitimate book of the Bible, but it’s the one that preachers don’t teach, that no one really wants to read, and I’m thinking I don’t,?it’s so great, I couldn’t wait to talk to you about it, but, I didn’t think that anyone would want to hear it.” Rich interjects, “It’s an uncomfortable book,” and Tucker asks, “So tell us how,?I’ve never heard of anyone doing something like that. First of all, what is Revelation?”
Consider for a moment what Tucker said here. I am glad that he recognizes Revelation as a “legitimate book of the Bible.” I agree, 100%! But is it a book that “preachers don’t teach” and that “no one really wants to read”? I do not think this is even remotely true, nor is it helpful. I have taught through the book of Revelation, verse by verse, and I know many Christians who read and study Revelation (along with the rest of the books of the Bible) with great enthusiasm and joy. There may be a few churches somewhere which avoid the book of Revelation, but that has not been my experience over the now 40 years that I have been a Christian.1
This seems to be an example of the logical fallacy known as “poisoning the well.” By insinuating that preachers and Christians alike avoid the book of Revelation, we are meant to think that John Rich and Tucker Carlson are courageously seeking truth that is otherwise hidden or denied. Throughout the interview this posture is maintained, so we’re supposed to see Rich as the courageous prophet, the lone voice speaking truth in opposition to the Satanic forces behind popular music and movies. It’s John Rich who is engaging in spiritual warfare by visualizing the wrestling match between principalities, powers, and the rulers of darkness that Paul described in Ephesians 6. It’s John Rich who is calling out the Beast by bringing to our attention the technology, which has only recently been developed, that make it possible for globalist forces to control our movements and purchases as John wrote about in the book of Revelation.
If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14
Rich quotes the words of the Lord from 2 Chronicles 7:14, emphasizing the opening phrase, “If my people, who are called by my name,” claiming this verse promises forgiveness and restoration for our land (presumably the USA), if the church repents. He then says, “Now that is not going to be preached in a church. I promise you Tucker, no preacher is going to say, ‘It’s our fault that this is happening.’” And when Tucker asks, “Why?” he responds, “Because it puts the onus on them, on me, on you, on Christians. They don’t want to have to take that re? ‘This can’t be my fault; this is all the devil’s work.’” Then a few seconds later he makes a much more specific accusation against Christian preachers, saying, “For too long preachers have gone in and sanded the edges off of these very literal and very powerful verses to suit the narrative.”
Are Christian preachers just like media personalities who twist the facts to fit a predetermined narrative? That seems to be Rich’s claim, and Tucker agrees saying that there has been very little public outcry from preachers about things like the White House replacing Easter with “Trans Visibility Day” or arresting an elderly woman for praying outside an abortion clinic. “And so,” he asks, “it does feel like if there is push back against this?well you’re a country music star, and you’re pushing back again’?why’s it falling to you?”
Then about halfway the interview, Rich asks permission to read 2 Thessalonians 2, “which,” he says, “doesn’t get preached very much.”2 Then, after reading the entire chapter, he explains his own interpretation and charges anyone who disagrees with disliking and disregarding God’s word. “Now that goes?I’m telling you right now, heads are exploding in the church world and with a lot of Christians,” Rich says, “They’re going, ‘Heh,”? But you can get mad all you want to, I’m reading it verbatim. If you got a problem with that, go tell him [points upward] you’ve got a problem with it.”
Is it really falling to a country music star to address these issues? Are preachers across this nation ignoring the plain teaching of Scripture or sanding off the rough edges of uncomfortable passages to make them more palatable? Do pastors just refuse to read or preach from Revelation or Daniel or Matthew 24 or 2 Thessalonians 2? No doubt there are some who do, but there are also thousands who faithfully and fearlessly preach God’s word, most of whom will never have the size of platform either of these men enjoy. And beside them stand Sunday school teachers, deacons, businessmen, housewives, and many, many others who study and teach these things every day. By accusing godly men and women of shying away from the truth out of fear or discomfort, Rich and Carlson preclude any meaningful dialogue on these subjects. Although the tenor of this interview makes it difficult for me to address its content, I will still attempt to do so in further installments, pointing out factual, biblical, and theological errors along the way.
1 The site Sermon Audio archives thousands of sermons on the book of Revelation. Many thousands more could be found by searching sites like YouTube, popular podcast apps like Spotify, or hundreds of local church websites all across the web.
2 As before, a simple search on Sermon Audio reveals nearly 2,000 sermons on 2 Thessalonians 2.
Are you trying to be more relevant than John Rich and Tucker? I think the message that was delivered was accurate and amazing. You are correct these men have a huge platform. If their lives have been converted and they are championing Jesus Christ and telling the masses to prepare for the coming of our savior then why can’t you get behind that and push instead of feeling like you need to dissect their words and tear them apart. They admitted to not being perfect human beings as you should consider as well. If men such as Kenneth Copeland, Joel O., Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart and countless more can be considered champions for Christ so can John Rich and Tucker Carlson. It is time to unite and pull together for the great commission not find fault in every message that is delivered to the public by flawed human beings. Just because the ordained Word of God is not flawed doesn’t mean that every man who has delivered His word from a pulpit or a street corner is a false teacher and needs to be bashed. I tell you right now that if the Word of God is delivered to man and he hears it with an open heart and accepts it as the truth that God and the Holy Spirit will provide the discernment required for that person to wade thru the lies, mistakes, misinterpretations, misrepresentations and so on.
Consider your own humanity and flaws as will I.
God bless you and I look forward to fighting this spiritual battle with you and not against you.
Richard,
Thanks for reading my post. I have no personal agenda here, other than what I stated in my post.
I affirm with the apostle Paul “that whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and in this I rejoice” (Philippians 1:18). I am also compelled to love and declare what is true and to confront error and slander of many good brothers and sisters, who are doing what John Rich and Tucker Carlson claim they are not. It would be wonderful if these men used their gigantic platform to encourage people to seek out churches that are faithfully teaching and preaching God’s word without apology, rather than insinuating that the only place you will hear the truth is from a country singer and a conservative journalist.
As far as the likes of Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, Jim Bakker, and Jimmy Swaggart, they are false prophets who lead men away from the saving truth of Jesus Christ and seek to use the gospel for personal gain. Their lies and false prophecies are well-documented, and unless they repent, they can hope for nothing short of eternal damnation.
Swaggart’s heterodoxy is not the subject of this article or any that I have written.
Nevertheless, his view of salvation, specifically his denial of the security of the believer, is unbiblical. Additionally, his very novel view of sanctification and what I can find of his view of the trinity are also problematic at best.
Agree 100%. We are going through the book of Revelations not only in men’s Bible study but on Sunday morning services. I have studied the book and the more you read it the more you can see the same story in the Old Testiment, especially Daniel. Everyone needs to read this book and real8ze there are things that will happen that you don’t want your family and friends to go through. Even your enemies don’t need to go through this to spend eternity in hell. And it is so simply to be removed by asking Jesus to come into your heart..
Praying for all
I watched the entire interview and was thrilled to see these 2 men speaking about GoD, Jesus, and sharing. And to have more Christian ?? Brothers among us!
I will say John Rich spoke with authority as a teacher, and when doing that on such a large platform it is a great responsibility to at least be scripturally accurate about the things you are acting and teaching/preaching on.
Personally, if the conversation were less authoritative and more of a Christ journey and a sharing of things learned thus far humbly… that would have.been better.
John Rich said with Great Authority that the word AntiChrist is not in the Bible, yet the Actual word is in the Bible many times, any new Bible reader would know that- Tucker was taken aback by that, but he did not correct him. He should have. Because that statement was False.
That statement alone by John Rich made me stop listening.
If he is falsley stating such a basic Bible Truth, (easy to google) then this song writer is hardly capable to act as a teacher of theology to anyone, much less the worldwide internet of the masses.
He is being a false teacher and that is misleading to those seeking Scriptural Truth and God admonishes us against listening to false teachers and false prophets. Nor should we Ever teach from ourselves, but direct Always to God’s Word.
God is the Authority.
We do not go to men to learn about God, we go directly to God’s Word to learn about the Things of God, that is why HE had it written and preserved.
I am Always excited for anyone’s Journey with Christ. And I was thrilled at this Great Song and Video John Rich was Christ inspired to create… but Jesus prompted a Song Writer/ Musician to put out a Divinely Inspired Song for HiM.
That did not mean John Rich was then given the spiritual gift of teaching or prophesying, and he is not divinely ordained to do so.
Write the song, praise God and Jesus, encourage people to read scripture, and leave the teaching to those gifted to do so.
Mr Vawter Sir
I watched the TC/JR interview. I found it very interesting and actually insightful as I tend to agree with most of his (JR) thoughts. I can turn on my TV and hear very little pertaining to Revelations. I do hear prosperity Gospel preaching almost always. There is a very big push from Mega Churches across the nation to water down what’s being said on TV. But local stations and the local Churches do have solid Christian sermons ongoing. Where I live a large mega Church has started accepting same sex marriages. Other Churches are also following suit. I believe Mr Rich’s point was that events happening are biblical and no one knows the time of Christ’s return. Be ready as I’m sure you are.
FYI TC was raised Episcopalian.
Sir I believe you became offended for some reason unknowingly. I suspect you are a strong Believer in Christ and know your congregation well. The article you wrote seems to possess some things that divide the Church today. Calling out one person for his opinion. Yet if I read your article correctly, you agreed with his doctrine or I may be wrong.
A flawed person
Michael
I have only watched a short clip of this interview then I read your post here. I feel like this is an instance of if the shoe fits. I don’t think JR was saying everyone falls into this category and I’m unsure why you took his words as a personal attack. Much of what I heard from him rang true for me but certainly only applies to those who are guilty of what he said. My life experience has shown me that people get offended if the shoe fits. If it doesn’t then why get offended? He’s not wrong. He has influence. If God uses that influence to reach those who need correction who are we to question? I’m glad there are people out there that can stand for the kingdom and we should unite together. Perhaps the trick is to not let the enemy distract us from what’s important through our flawed sensibilities. Rather than being indignant with who does he think he is we should be like thank you Jesus for raising up more workers to Your (God) glory.
I think that God has enabled men like Rich and Carlson to have very large platforms and much influence. If they want to carry on a conversation on such vital, life-and-death topics, should they not be even more careful to speak truthfully about others?
If I have misrepresented Rich or Carlson in any way, feel free to point that out. But if not, then why not be more concerned with the way they have misrepresented Christians who disagree with them?
God will use whoever He pleases and the Bible says even the foolish and despised are His to use. Ex cons are evangelists and pastors. Tom Macdonald the rapper and Justin Bieber write songs glorifying Jesus our only hope. Rejoice and stop criticising.
In the Southwest, where I live, it it hard to find a Bible believing church that will talk of end times unless you find a good Calvary Chapel. Churches here are feel good, and seeker friendly. I have found a good Baptist Church that is involved in evangelism. Even going door to door to invite to church, so they can hear the gospel. I was glad to hear John Rich’s story of his song. He had a good testimony of being led by the Holy Spirit and following through in a big way.
I was lost and now I’m found! I was blind and now I see! We are living in a fallen world and most of us know we are in the end times. Things are moving very fast as God is preparing the harvest! There are four major viewpoints on Revelation as taught by theologians. Discussions are great and I enjoy listening to all of them Including this one but we can’t loose focus on Jesus as the goal of God’s plan.
Why you have chosen to “unpack” Tucker and Rich’s discussion in any sort of negative fashion is just wrong. You should be grateful that God and reading scriptures from the Bible regarding Jesus’ return are even being discussed mainstream, instead of nitpicking and taking personal offense because you preach it. Good for you that you do, but it’s rarely talked about in the churches I’ve attended throughout my life either. This evil world needs these kinds of discussions boosted up and not broken down. One thing Rich seemed to want to get out there to save souls was about the false belief that people have about being raptured before the bad stuff happens. Hopefully, if it really is 99% of Christians that believe that, they will pick up the Bible and read about it. You didn’t even mention that in your “unpacking”. Keep preaching about it and more so now than ever, that’s where your time would be more helpful to everyone.
Rachel,
Thang for reading some of my analysis on Carlson’s interview of Rich. I am thankful that he presented the gospel, but that does not remove him from criticism any more than it does me (as your complaint demonstrates).
As far as Tucker’s views on the rapture, I believe he is wrong in thinking that the church will endure the day of Jacob’s trouble, and his insinuation that somehow the Rothschilds were behind J. N. Darby and the Scofield Reference Bible smacks of antisemitism.
I did not address his errors about the rapture, but I think that others have done a fine job on that already. Here’s an example from Lee Brianard: https://youtu.be/HAu4RcDxqbc
If you would like to respond to any of the actual points I addressed, then I am all ears.
This is your interpretation, with what sounds like a bit of a “chip.” Both of these men are celebrities of sorts, but first, they are just like you and me—God’s children. He may be using a megaphone, but Rich still has a right to his perspective, just as you do – remember, neither of you is “right/wrong.” Let’s also remember that everything is an interpretation based on knowledge, experience, and emotional perspective. No one really knows anything for sure, only God. The Bible is literally “according to…”. Try to stay positive and look at the good in humanity. We are all trying to do our best, well, most of us are.
No one really knows anything for sure, only God.
I sincerely doubt that you live as if this were true. We may not have exhaustive knowledge, but that does not negate all certainty.
Of course it’s possible that Rich’s biblical interpretation is correct and mine is not, but when he makes factual errors we should not simply brush them aside. He is as accountable as anyone else for the things he says, especially when he is teaching others God’s word.
Are you trying to be more relevant than John Rich and Tucker? I think the message that was delivered was accurate and amazing. You are correct these men have a huge platform. If their lives have been converted and they are championing Jesus Christ and telling the masses to prepare for the coming of our savior then why can’t you get behind that and push instead of feeling like you need to dissect their words and tear them apart. They admitted to not being perfect human beings as you should consider as well. If men such as Kenneth Copeland, Joel O., Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart and countless more can be considered champions for Christ so can John Rich and Tucker Carlson. It is time to unite and pull together for the great commission not find fault in every message that is delivered to the public by flawed human beings. Just because the ordained Word of God is not flawed doesn’t mean that every man who has delivered His word from a pulpit or a street corner is a false teacher and needs to be bashed. I tell you right now that if the Word of God is delivered to man and he hears it with an open heart and accepts it as the truth that God and the Holy Spirit will provide the discernment required for that person to wade thru the lies, mistakes, misinterpretations, misrepresentations and so on.
Consider your own humanity and flaws as will I.
God bless you and I look forward to fighting this spiritual battle with you and not against you.
DL
Richard,
Thanks for reading my post. I have no personal agenda here, other than what I stated in my post.
I affirm with the apostle Paul “that whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and in this I rejoice” (Philippians 1:18). I am also compelled to love and declare what is true and to confront error and slander of many good brothers and sisters, who are doing what John Rich and Tucker Carlson claim they are not. It would be wonderful if these men used their gigantic platform to encourage people to seek out churches that are faithfully teaching and preaching God’s word without apology, rather than insinuating that the only place you will hear the truth is from a country singer and a conservative journalist.
As far as the likes of Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, Jim Bakker, and Jimmy Swaggart, they are false prophets who lead men away from the saving truth of Jesus Christ and seek to use the gospel for personal gain. Their lies and false prophecies are well-documented, and unless they repent, they can hope for nothing short of eternal damnation.
Jimmy Swaggart preaches the true gospel. He is not a false prophet. If you think he is then it’s obvious that you have never listened to him.
Swaggart’s heterodoxy is not the subject of this article or any that I have written.
Nevertheless, his view of salvation, specifically his denial of the security of the believer, is unbiblical. Additionally, his very novel view of sanctification and what I can find of his view of the trinity are also problematic at best.
Agree 100%. We are going through the book of Revelations not only in men’s Bible study but on Sunday morning services. I have studied the book and the more you read it the more you can see the same story in the Old Testiment, especially Daniel. Everyone needs to read this book and real8ze there are things that will happen that you don’t want your family and friends to go through. Even your enemies don’t need to go through this to spend eternity in hell. And it is so simply to be removed by asking Jesus to come into your heart..
Praying for all
I watched the entire interview and was thrilled to see these 2 men speaking about GoD, Jesus, and sharing. And to have more Christian ?? Brothers among us!
I will say John Rich spoke with authority as a teacher, and when doing that on such a large platform it is a great responsibility to at least be scripturally accurate about the things you are acting and teaching/preaching on.
Personally, if the conversation were less authoritative and more of a Christ journey and a sharing of things learned thus far humbly… that would have.been better.
John Rich said with Great Authority that the word AntiChrist is not in the Bible, yet the Actual word is in the Bible many times, any new Bible reader would know that- Tucker was taken aback by that, but he did not correct him. He should have. Because that statement was False.
That statement alone by John Rich made me stop listening.
If he is falsley stating such a basic Bible Truth, (easy to google) then this song writer is hardly capable to act as a teacher of theology to anyone, much less the worldwide internet of the masses.
He is being a false teacher and that is misleading to those seeking Scriptural Truth and God admonishes us against listening to false teachers and false prophets. Nor should we Ever teach from ourselves, but direct Always to God’s Word.
God is the Authority.
We do not go to men to learn about God, we go directly to God’s Word to learn about the Things of God, that is why HE had it written and preserved.
I am Always excited for anyone’s Journey with Christ. And I was thrilled at this Great Song and Video John Rich was Christ inspired to create… but Jesus prompted a Song Writer/ Musician to put out a Divinely Inspired Song for HiM.
That did not mean John Rich was then given the spiritual gift of teaching or prophesying, and he is not divinely ordained to do so.
Write the song, praise God and Jesus, encourage people to read scripture, and leave the teaching to those gifted to do so.
Mr Vawter Sir
I watched the TC/JR interview. I found it very interesting and actually insightful as I tend to agree with most of his (JR) thoughts. I can turn on my TV and hear very little pertaining to Revelations. I do hear prosperity Gospel preaching almost always. There is a very big push from Mega Churches across the nation to water down what’s being said on TV. But local stations and the local Churches do have solid Christian sermons ongoing. Where I live a large mega Church has started accepting same sex marriages. Other Churches are also following suit. I believe Mr Rich’s point was that events happening are biblical and no one knows the time of Christ’s return. Be ready as I’m sure you are.
FYI TC was raised Episcopalian.
Sir I believe you became offended for some reason unknowingly. I suspect you are a strong Believer in Christ and know your congregation well. The article you wrote seems to possess some things that divide the Church today. Calling out one person for his opinion. Yet if I read your article correctly, you agreed with his doctrine or I may be wrong.
A flawed person
Michael
I have only watched a short clip of this interview then I read your post here. I feel like this is an instance of if the shoe fits. I don’t think JR was saying everyone falls into this category and I’m unsure why you took his words as a personal attack. Much of what I heard from him rang true for me but certainly only applies to those who are guilty of what he said. My life experience has shown me that people get offended if the shoe fits. If it doesn’t then why get offended? He’s not wrong. He has influence. If God uses that influence to reach those who need correction who are we to question? I’m glad there are people out there that can stand for the kingdom and we should unite together. Perhaps the trick is to not let the enemy distract us from what’s important through our flawed sensibilities. Rather than being indignant with who does he think he is we should be like thank you Jesus for raising up more workers to Your (God) glory.
I think that God has enabled men like Rich and Carlson to have very large platforms and much influence. If they want to carry on a conversation on such vital, life-and-death topics, should they not be even more careful to speak truthfully about others?
If I have misrepresented Rich or Carlson in any way, feel free to point that out. But if not, then why not be more concerned with the way they have misrepresented Christians who disagree with them?
Amen! I’m in total agreement with what you wrote!
God will use whoever He pleases and the Bible says even the foolish and despised are His to use. Ex cons are evangelists and pastors. Tom Macdonald the rapper and Justin Bieber write songs glorifying Jesus our only hope. Rejoice and stop criticising.
In the Southwest, where I live, it it hard to find a Bible believing church that will talk of end times unless you find a good Calvary Chapel. Churches here are feel good, and seeker friendly. I have found a good Baptist Church that is involved in evangelism. Even going door to door to invite to church, so they can hear the gospel. I was glad to hear John Rich’s story of his song. He had a good testimony of being led by the Holy Spirit and following through in a big way.
I was lost and now I’m found! I was blind and now I see! We are living in a fallen world and most of us know we are in the end times. Things are moving very fast as God is preparing the harvest! There are four major viewpoints on Revelation as taught by theologians. Discussions are great and I enjoy listening to all of them Including this one but we can’t loose focus on Jesus as the goal of God’s plan.
Why you have chosen to “unpack” Tucker and Rich’s discussion in any sort of negative fashion is just wrong. You should be grateful that God and reading scriptures from the Bible regarding Jesus’ return are even being discussed mainstream, instead of nitpicking and taking personal offense because you preach it. Good for you that you do, but it’s rarely talked about in the churches I’ve attended throughout my life either. This evil world needs these kinds of discussions boosted up and not broken down. One thing Rich seemed to want to get out there to save souls was about the false belief that people have about being raptured before the bad stuff happens. Hopefully, if it really is 99% of Christians that believe that, they will pick up the Bible and read about it. You didn’t even mention that in your “unpacking”. Keep preaching about it and more so now than ever, that’s where your time would be more helpful to everyone.
Rachel,
Thang for reading some of my analysis on Carlson’s interview of Rich. I am thankful that he presented the gospel, but that does not remove him from criticism any more than it does me (as your complaint demonstrates).
As far as Tucker’s views on the rapture, I believe he is wrong in thinking that the church will endure the day of Jacob’s trouble, and his insinuation that somehow the Rothschilds were behind J. N. Darby and the Scofield Reference Bible smacks of antisemitism.
I did not address his errors about the rapture, but I think that others have done a fine job on that already. Here’s an example from Lee Brianard: https://youtu.be/HAu4RcDxqbc
If you would like to respond to any of the actual points I addressed, then I am all ears.
This is your interpretation, with what sounds like a bit of a “chip.” Both of these men are celebrities of sorts, but first, they are just like you and me—God’s children. He may be using a megaphone, but Rich still has a right to his perspective, just as you do – remember, neither of you is “right/wrong.” Let’s also remember that everything is an interpretation based on knowledge, experience, and emotional perspective. No one really knows anything for sure, only God. The Bible is literally “according to…”. Try to stay positive and look at the good in humanity. We are all trying to do our best, well, most of us are.
No one really knows anything for sure, only God.
I sincerely doubt that you live as if this were true. We may not have exhaustive knowledge, but that does not negate all certainty.
Of course it’s possible that Rich’s biblical interpretation is correct and mine is not, but when he makes factual errors we should not simply brush them aside. He is as accountable as anyone else for the things he says, especially when he is teaching others God’s word.